Ruth Ward, Chief of Public Engagement, Department of Families, Fairness and Housing: Kia ora tena koutou katoa, and welcome to our meet the regulator webinar. My name is Ruth Ward and I am the Chief of Public Engagement, which means I manage a large team of people who look after media and events and comms activities for department. I will be your facilitator for today.
I would like to acknowledge the traditional owners of the lands on which we are meeting today and pay my respects to elders, past and present as well as to any First Nations people joining us today. I would like to acknowledge also that sovereignty was never ceded. This is, was and always will be Aboriginal land.
This session will be recorded and shared on the Social Services Regulator website for anyone who hasn't been able to attend today. For today's agenda, I will have a chat with Jonathan Kaplan, our new Social Services Regulator, and we will be asking Jonathan some of the questions submitted by our audience. You can submit your questions in the chat function and we will try to answer as many as we can in this session. However, we will capture them all as well and come back to you with responses to those.
We are joined by our Auslan interpreter, Dave, and this session is also captioned by Kasey. Instructions will be shared in the chat shortly. I will now welcome Jonathan. Jonathan is here on the screen with us. Good morning, Jonathan.
Jonathan Kaplan, Social Services Regulator: Morning, Ruth, and good morning, everyone. Thank you for joining us today. I too would like to acknowledge the traditional owners of the land on which we are. I am on the land of the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin Nation and I would like to pay my respect to elders past, present and emerging and Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander colleagues who may be joining us today. Nice to be here and thank you, Ruth.
Ruth Ward: Thanks, Jonathan. Let's kick off. Tell us a bit about yourself. Your career and I suppose your path to becoming the state's Social Services Regulator?
Jonathan Kaplan: Most recently, I joined from being the CEO of the Victorian Registration and Qualifications Authority, which is a terrible name but it regulates all education and training in Victoria, so all schools, apprenticeships, traineeships, VET and RTOs and including in that a very important piece of child safeguarding.
Prior to that, I have worked my entire career across social policy and social care portfolios and really, I will share a little story of where I started ‑ where you begin often informs where you are now. I started out a long time ago as a Prison drugs worker back in the very late 90s in the UK. On my very first day being in a prison, I came across three things which have really informed and impacted me throughout my career and which, hopefully, you will be able to see the nexus to the work now.
On the first day, two out of the four clients I saw had been victims of childhood sexual abuse. Also at lunchtime a number of the men in the prison self‑harmed in quite serious ways, so the real impact of mental health and wellbeing. The other thing is of the four clients I saw on the first day, two of them actually had to sign their consent forms with an X, they couldn't even write their own names.
Really taking that back to safeguarding mental health and education, being such an important impact on peoples' lives and outcomes, I have spent my entire career, one way or another, either working in or around safeguarding vulnerable people and looking to support them to improve, hopefully their outcomes.
The opportunity to come and be the inaugural Social Services Regulator really is an opportunity to continue that pathway, but to get much closer than possibly in the schools role to being able to make a difference to individuals who really need help and support. What has been a 25‑year journey has some twists and turns, but very, very excited and pleased to be here and hopefully being able to continue to contribute to the kind of outcomes that have always been really important.
Ruth Ward: That is a real start, right, like I can really understand why that had an impact on you and set yourself up for that work of a lifetime, really. What's your role as the state's inaugural Social Services Regulator? What's that kind of ‑ what is your daily gig going to be, Jonathan?
Jonathan Kaplan: I will share a little secret. At the moment my daily gig is very strange because, for the first four months of the role, I have had no staff and no actual day‑to‑day operational responsibilities but a lot of planning and preparation. I will come to talk about that a little bit later.
What it is going to be about, it is going to be about working across a series of sectors, where actually I think we have all got the same thing as our core purpose, which is to help vulnerable Victorians and how we come at it. It is about giving people confidence that when they turn up to a service, they are going to get the best service they can and a service where the standards are reliable and consistent, whether you are going to your government service and for-profit service or a not-for-profit.
My role is about supporting these sectors, where the majority of people and organisations are working really hard, looking and trying to do the right thing and the best thing. Helping them to understand what they need to do to meet a series of standards that let them know – let them inform vulnerable Victorians that when they come to that service, it is a good service and we work to a series of standards and proxies that the government has set.
It is a real opportunity to build that confidence across the great work that many organisations and people are doing. My day will be varied but one of the really important things is actually about engaging with the people who are running the services and I will talk a bit more about what that looks like, when I talk about what I have been doing for the last few months. Every day can be different. At the heart of it is people, whether it is working with the people in my organisation, the people in your organisation, or actually the clients and service users. It is having the person at the centre because, for me, that is really not only what is important, but also what brings personal satisfaction.
Ruth Ward: I think you are right. It has to be all of those people, working together. You, your team, the sector and their teams and then obviously, at the heart of that, is the service being delivered to the individual. You have been in the role since February. Tell us what you have been up to over the past few months and what you have learnt about the sector so far?
Jonathan Kaplan: As I said, it has been this period where I have had a little bit more time than I would do normally and so I have taken advantage of that and just had an opportunity to go out and meet with people and to listen to people. I have spent a lot of time in the car. I have driven from all four corners of Victoria, though I cheated once and took an aeroplane up to Mildura because that was too far to do.
Just going out and getting a sense of who people are, what their organisations are, what they do, how they do it, within the social services sector there is a different of range of sectors and organisations within it. Big, small, metro, regional, rural, ones that deliver small, specialised services, big organisations that work across a whole range of the sub‑sectors.
The opportunity to get out and meet with them, hear about their understanding of the scheme, hopefully to dispel a few myths around what the scheme is going to be and really how we are working together to achieve the outcomes. Also the fabulous bit has been the opportunity to go out into the services and actually meet and talk with some of the people who are using those services.
Whether that is going out and spending some time in supportive residential services, or actually going to some other services and talking to clients who may be passing through and get a sense of really what are – what is the context that things are happening in and also how I and the organisation can support organisations to demonstrate that they are meeting those standards, that demonstrate that they are providing the kind of services that vulnerable Victorians can expect.
As well as going out and visiting services, I have met with a series of peak bodies and stakeholders, which has been very useful and it has been great to see how those peak bodies are looking to support the services within their sectors and that will be an important relationship to build and maintain between myself and them, in order for there to be that additional support for organisations.
Also to understand where risk is. Risk‑based regulation is going to be very important and what that means is we applied the resources we have got where there is the greatest risk of harm, which is where the services are consistent and have a good ability to deliver, we will probably spend less time with them and we will spend more time with those that either are struggling to be compliant or those who actually are making decisions not to be. Getting to understand that is really, really important.
The other thing that I have actually spent a lot of time, which is building a whole new organisation and that has been part of the exciting thing, is the [Social Services Regulator] SSR is a bit of a start‑up and though there will be a number of people that transition from the Department of Families, Fairness and Housing, those who are in the Human Services Regulator [will go] to the Social Services Regulator on 1 July. It really is starting a new organisation and part of that is establishing a culture, a culture where we work with people, but where we see significant harm we take action.
Also, this is one of the important things with the task, is about establishing an organisation that is sector‑neutral. Whether we are working with organisations in the for‑profit sector, like in SRSs. Those in the not‑for‑profit, like many you are from the big and the small, and we will also be working with regulating services at the Department of Families, Fairness and Housing directly deliver themselves.
That goes to this point of, if you are a vulnerable Victorian and you go to government, you go to a for‑profit provider or a not‑for‑profit provider, you should expect the same. Building an organisation that understands its role, has the right capabilities and expertise to be able to engage with the breadth of people that we will have to, particularly over time with clients and residents of services who may have a disability, who may be victims of family violence, those and children – just to name a few. It is really important that we're able to engage and support them as they engage with the SSR.
Ruth Ward: It's no small task, Jonathan, setting up a new organisation but it certainly sounds like it has been a positive experience so far. One of the questions I would ask is what's the take-home been for you thus far?
Jonathan Kaplan: The take-home for me is, I think I have touched on it, is the vast, vast majority of the people I have met with and spoken with really have demonstrated such commitment and passion for the work that they do. And really, it is about being able to find the balance to support organisations and to understand what they need to do and how to do it in ordinary [ways] to be compliant, and then to be able to identify and target that very, very small proportion, where either they choose not to do the right thing or the risk of harm is really significant or high.
It is that balance and blended approach, but going out and talking to people, it lets me really develop what is probably my most regulatory tool, which is information, education and guidance. That is not just at the beginning through introduction of a new scheme to merely provide it, but it is an ongoing thing that we will have to do.
In terms of that, it leads to one of the challenges which is we’ve got to keep it simple. I have got to keep it simple for you, I have got to keep it simple for me and I have got to keep it simple for the service users who may engage with the SSR.
It's easy to write long and complicated things. It is difficult to write simple, clear and useful documents that help explain what you have to do in a way that anybody can engage with. The time I have been spending listening to people and getting a sense of what the questions and queries are and setting a tone. Nobody is going to be charging out on 1 July when the new scheme comes in, knocking on doors and trying to catch people out. For organisations, there will be elements that will be new and we will work with organisations to understand what those new bits are.
There will be many bits which will be not new, and for those of you who work with children, the 11 Child Safe Standards you have been working with, they have been settled for a couple of years and, therefore, the expectations are that organisations should be competent in meeting those Standards.
Where it is new, we will work with you, where you are engaged we will work with you. It is supporting the sector through change, and change will be different for different organisations. Some will have challenges with the capacity, how much work they can do in and around compliance. Some will have challenges around the skills and the capability. Where we can, we will support organisations and work with them to understand what they need to do and give them time to do it. Where we see real risk of harm, we will take action because it is about protecting and safeguarding.
Ruth Ward: You have led us down this path and that is so the priorities for you as the Regulator over the next year and the opportunities, I suppose, that you see for the organisation and on the flip of that, opportunities actually for the sector.
Jonathan Kaplan: I think the opportunities are really the same for all three of the key groups I have identified, which is to keep it simple, which is there is a risk over time you have a series of overlapping or complementary regulatory schemes which can be confusing to navigate. It can be confusing if you are an organisation, can be particularly confusing if you are a client in one of those services and can even be confusing for bits of government.
The opportunity to try and simplify: if you are a social service provider and you are delivering a range of services, whether it is for children, family violence, sexual assault, homelessness, or others – disability – that you engage with one organisation and we are consistent and predictable and we are efficient. That should hopefully allow organisations to focus on what their key priority is, which is working with clients. It should help clients and service users know where to go, which is to one place if they have got problems.
Also, it should make it simpler for me and my team, which means we can spend more time focusing on where there is the great harm, because we will understand the sector, we will have positive engagements and data that helps us identify and understand where that risk is. For those who are really good, solid consistent performers, you will probably see less of us. For those where there is risk and harm, you will probably see more of us. Being able to be efficient and keep it simple, I think that is one of the great benefits, because from that, I think we will have a better system, with stronger safeguards and less time being spent on compliance and regulation, if it's not necessary.
Ruth Ward: Any specific challenges for you in the year ahead?
Jonathan Kaplan: As I said, as well as working with you and your organisations, there is a significant piece around building a new organisation. There will be an element of building the plane while flying it which is one of the challenges. What that means is being able, through a series of mechanisms, to have a very good constructive, open and honest feedback group with the keen players in and around the work that we do will be really important.
I will be establishing a consultative committee of peak organisations which will be able to support my implementation and understanding from the sector's perspectives as we move from 1 July onwards. There will be three reference groups and these are very important, from my perspective, which is that feedback loop from First Nations people, the feedback loop from lived experience service users and the feedback loop from duty‑holders, which is service providers.
Needing to be able to understand that 360 degree, are we effective, are we delivering for the outcomes, are we keeping it simple, are we in the right places where risk is, what is the other contextual things that you know that I won't know unless we have a conversation? I will admit, we will try things over the next year or two, and some of them based on feedback will change because we can improve.
One of the Standards asks all of you and your organisations to focus on continuous improvement and just as you're asked to do that, it is critically important that I do it and particularly in the start‑up phase, it is going to be important to be able to have that feedback to make sure that we are keeping it simple, efficient and effective. Reducing duplication, and, over time, I think if we can do that collectively, we can get a system that works well, I will be able to communicate in a way of what I see in the system, that builds confidence in users that when they go to a registered organisation, whether it is government, for‑profit or not‑for‑profit, they can expect and they will receive a level of service standard that meets their needs.
We don't require you to hit best practice, we are a minimum standards regulator. It is about a consistency across everyone, that if a service user turns, they will be working with people who are suitably checked and competent. They will be in premises that are suitable for the service and are safe and accessible and inclusive. There is going to be a complaints process, so if they need to complain, they can do that and they understand it. They are going to know that there is governance. Who is responsible? Is the organisation well‑managed and the people leading it are fit and proper? Is there a continuous improvement mindset or process for the organisation? Really, importantly, is the organisation culturally safe and inclusive, so they can be there, be themselves and be able to access the kind of service? Finally, that the service users are at the centre.
As I talk about that and I have been out to organisations and I have reflected on my own professional journey, these are the same things that we have always been doing. We might have called them slightly different things and our knowledge and awareness and understanding of elements over time has enhanced but, at the heart of it, this is what we have always been doing, clients at the centre, with safe people, in safe places, well‑run organisations and that if they have problems, they know where to go to get them resolved. I do see this as an evolution. Evolution rather than revolution needs to be well managed and we need to work together to keep it as simple and as efficient as possible because we are all working for those same outcomes of great services for vulnerable Victorians.
Ruth Ward: Thanks, Jonathan. For the next part we are going to jump into some questions from our audience. Thanks to everyone who has submitted them. I have a question here "Is there going to be an onboarding‑type process in order to support individual businesses to understand the new regulations and legislation? Will there be clear advice about how to identify and manage the new Standards and expectations?"
Jonathan Kaplan: Thank you for that question. We have already got a series of information guidance going up on the new SSR website. Really started with a foundational piece of what are the new Standards, how are they different to the former Human Services Standards that many of you have had to have regard to for a number of years?
Really important, explaining what they are, but what compliance or evidence might look like? I say "might", because not everybody will achieve it in the same way. It is about being descriptive, not prescriptive. It is about organisations being able to bring what they do and demonstrate compliance, rather than me saying "Here are 27 documents you must have on a shelf" because actually that doesn't achieve the outcomes. Some of you will go about achieving compliance in different ways. That as a foundational piece is there.
We have also recently put up, in the last few days, information about the registration process over the coming next 12 months and how that will be different for different organisations, depending on their existing relationship with regulatory schemes. Now, as I said, it is very much about us explaining things simply. There is today's meeting. I have been out and done a series of similar‑type events online and others with organisations, including with VCOSS to give a sense of how I will approach things.
Really central is information, education and guidance in a useful and meaningful form. We have got a series of webinars starting next week. We will leave stuff online. We have got an inbox and we will answer questions and we will build those questions into our guidance. It is a starting point with what we have got and we will be building that out over the coming days, weeks, months and into the future.
Ruth Ward: Thanks, Jonathan "Will the Regulator be providing a self‑assessment tool for organisations to use, ie, a simple Word document to complete?"
Jonathan Kaplan: Yes. We are just finalising and will be very briefly testing it with a small sample of providers, in terms of a self‑assessment check list test for organisations to be able to use to help them understand what the new Standards are and what their responsibilities will need to be and what they need to be thinking about now.
As I said, and if you have a look at the guidance that we have already got up there, I think it gives some pretty good pointers and just having a look at that and thinking the kind of evidence that they're pointing at, do we have that? Do we do it? Do we have it but it is called something different or we do it in a different way? That is a good starting point to have a conversation with your management teams and boards about.
Ruth Ward: We also have a question that "Given there is no auditing system, how will the SSR determine if a provider is being compliant, without having to wait for something to go terribly wrong?"
Jonathan Kaplan: There will be a range of things that we will do. The very first point, and actually the registration process that we will go through, starting from 1 July, is a really good, important beginning that, with the information that either we hold on organisations already registered from the style that will transition over, where organisations will confirm what we have is correct and there will be a picture of them.
New organisations coming in and the information we will collect through the registration process, we will start to get a picture of who organisations are, what they do, where they do it, who is doing it there. We already will have a sense of across the sectors, where the highest risk may be and that is already – we know there is certain areas where there is high risk. We will, because of the requirement for you to notify us of serious incidents, be able to identify risk there.
Just because an organisation makes lots of notifications, doesn't mean that they are a high‑risk organisation. It might just mean that they are very big, but, most importantly, it might mean that they are working with the most challenging client group and, therefore, we will be able, through understanding the data and reviewing to get a sense of whether the incidents really relate to issues or whether it is actually just to do with the nature of their service.
The other thing that we will build over time is we will do some thematic work. We might pick a Standard or a couple of Standards and go out and do a random sample of testing with a series of organisations and that is not necessarily – that is not particularly to catch anyone out, it is much to get a sense of do people understand what they're meant to be doing? If they don't understand, is it because I haven't explained it clearly and simply enough? Then, is that something I can do to help you, or actually is there some kind of practice improvement that we can highlight through our education, information and guidance?
On occasions we may find significant issues that do require a regulatory response. We will build that up, collecting data, painting pictures and just being out talking to people and visiting services through a whole range of different mechanisms and through those peak consultative groups also identifying what maybe opportunities for improvement or areas of risk. It will be a blended approach. Not everybody will see us for a full review or audit on a regular basis.
Ruth Ward: Which kind of leads us into the next question, someone has posed here "As a registered NDIS provider, they go through audits every 18 months. Will they have to comply with more standards?"
Jonathan Kaplan: Any organisation that is registered with the SSR will have to comply with all of the Social Services Standards. The work that we need to do and starting that conversation with the peaks and with peak bodies and with some organisations, which is understanding what you do for your other compliance and regulatory matters. It may be that over time, we will understand that for NDIS relative to one of our Standards. You could use X, Y and Z but we need one or two extra bits of information and, if it's a timely and approximate audit that you have had with NDIS, we will just say produce what you have produced for them, don't recreate it to be two weeks more current, but we need one or two extra things.
Though I don't think there will be any kind of necessarily magic complying with one organisation and everything else falls into line. I do absolutely believe, and one of the core principles, is if we can collect once, or shared once but can be used multiple times, we will do that. It is in your interests, it is in everybody's interest. Over time, we will get a better understanding of that and where we can rely on other elements, we will and where it is just an additional X or Y that we need to know, we will ask for that.
Ruth Ward: Thanks, Jonathan "Will the SSR engage with other regulators, eg, Consumer Affairs Victoria, the ACCC, to ensure breaches of the Australian consumer law are identified and reported?"
Jonathan Kaplan: Going back to something that I mentioned earlier about simplifying things and part of that has been because there are so many regulators. Really, a big important part of my job is actually working with co-regulators where we collect and understand information that relates to others' regulatory schemes, we will share it and we will share it in a proactive way.
Also, what is going to be really important is working with other co-regulators to make sure that where we all may have an interest in a matter or an incident, that we are able to engage in an efficient and effective way and that will be a good example for those of you who work with children, with the Commission for Children and Young People. The SSR will be the Child Safe Standards regulator, but the CCYP will manage the scheme for reportable conduct.
There may be overlap in needing to respond to issues and that requires really good communication and structures and collaboration between us and we will do that, because you don't have time to deal with multiple regulators at the same time on the same thing, unless it is strictly necessary. To be honest, if we can rely on other work, we will do that. With a focus on keeping it simple and efficient and quick, really. There is a big piece there but, yes, we will proactively share information and I am out seeking agreement through a series of MOUs with a whole series of organisations that we need to be able to work efficiently and effectively together.
Ruth Ward: Fantastic. "What are your plans for publishing data? In the consumer sector, they would have access to annual reports from various regulators and ombudsman services. What does that look like for the SSR?"
Jonathan Kaplan: We are required to produce an annual report every year, which will have a significant piece on reportable operations, which will talk about what we have done, how we have worked relative to government's expectations but also it will tell stories of the work that we have done and the impact that we have had, hopefully. There will be that and that will have activity data.
As I said, one of the important things I can do is to use the communication as a regulatory tool. Where I can tell stories through case studies, where I can put out data to inform where there are opportunities for improvement, or whether there are things that are going well across the sector, I will do that and also where I have taken regulatory action in relation to serious incidents, I may even publish specifically about that.
Data, both qualitative and quantitative, is really important. It is important for me to share to be transparent but I think it is also useful and important for organisations to see what good looks like, but also what are areas for improvement and understanding of system and sectors?
Ruth Ward: Which leads me to the next question "Is it possible that the Regulator might focus on a particular area in the future for improvement, for example, SRSs or rooming houses?"
Jonathan Kaplan: Yes. Yes and no. Maybe SRSs. It won't be rooming houses because that is not within the SSR's remit. Rooming houses still sit with Consumer Affairs. SRSs we know, some of our most vulnerable and disadvantaged Victorians are there. That will always be an area of focus.
We will identify risk and sometimes that will be through seeing or understanding where serious harm has happened but also government, through a thing called a statement of expectations, can give direction that we want you to focus in a particular area, or in a particular way for a period of time. We will bring all those things together and we will communicate where we are, focusing our activities or doing thematic work, or even going to do regional work.
Ruth Ward: We have probably got time maybe for two more questions. The next one I have got is "Will service activity codes for the Social Services Standards scope be made available?"
Jonathan Kaplan: The activity codes, I believe – I could be wrong because you are getting to a level of detail which, as a new person, after four months, I may not be perfect on, will align with those from DFFH and the ones that relate to the contracts. They should be a consistency between that but, in terms of publicly available, I will have to come back to you on actually how and what that might look like, if I am entirely honest.
Ruth Ward: You can take that question on notice, Jonathan.
Jonathan Kaplan: I will.
Ruth Ward: "Can organisations expect unannounced inspections for compliance assessments?" Somebody has posted they are aware that this is part of the UK model, "If so, how will they be managed safely for organisations with undisclosed locations?"
Jonathan Kaplan: Yes, there is always a possibility that there could be an unannounced inspection or visit by authorised officers. It is a really important regulatory tool that we need to use but it is not one that we will necessarily use that often. It is important that we don't use it because it can unsettle organisations and therefore – and the people who live or use them and, therefore, we only want to use it where we must and need to.
Also from efficiency perspective, it is good to let people know "We might be coming and this is what we will be interested in" to make it simple and easy. Yes, we will and there may be some specific examples where – I think I know the kind of organisation that you talk about, that you are referring to, we will work that through and, if necessary, we will maybe give short notice or give a little bit of notice so that nobody, particularly service users who may be victims of trauma, are not in any way traumatised further, or unsettled or upset. We will work that through, so it is not a one‑size‑fits‑all and we will always be – always think about what the impact is on the service but, at the same time, there may be occasions where we do need to use that type of inspection power.
Ruth Ward: Last question now "Who is measuring what is deemed as culturally safe?"
Jonathan Kaplan: A lot of work has been done with the Commission for Children and Young People. For those of you who have had to have regard to Child Safe Standards, this is not new and there has been a lot of work relative to that child safe standard, one around culturally safe, both Aboriginal cultural safety and cultural safety and inclusivity more broadly. So we will build on that.
There is more work that the Commission for Children and Young People and the Aboriginal Commission for Children and Young People has developed in consultation with Aboriginal Community and Aboriginal‑controlled organisations that we will be working very closely with and, in fact myself and the other child safety regulators meet regularly and it is our number one agenda item and we meet next week.
There is a body of work out there, it is developing and we will be drawing on the expertise of the Commission but also having Aboriginal staff within the SSR, we already do and we will be recruiting more very shortly, in order to have expertise to advise us, just as much as we – for other elements of inclusivity need to be able to understand the perspectives of people with a disability or victim survivors in other communities. We have to build that expertise over time and in consultation.
Ruth Ward: Thanks, very much, Jonathan. I would like to say that it has been great having you and for you taking the time out to talk to us and the broader audience that we have had here. That does conclude our event for this morning. I would like to thank also all of those who submitted questions this morning. We will be collating those at the front end and if there is a couple more that land in, post this meeting, that is OK. We will see Jonathan again at the next webinar on 28 May and during the next session, Jonathan will take us through the guidance material available online to help support you through the transition and we certainly hope that you can join us for that.
I would like to thank Dave our Auslan interpreter today and Kasey, who has been captioning for us as well. Have a great day everyone and thank you very much. See you next time.
Jonathan Kaplan: Thanks Ruth, and thank you everybody for coming.
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